I was actually more interested in the science fiction topic when I mentioned your name. I have a habit of mentioning the names of the parties involved when I cite a comment. Anyway, it is good to hear from you again, Amber Lisa.
“Slavery never ended in the US…it just changed forms.”
I have not claimed otherwise:
The conversation between Elle Beau and I on the topic of slavery and abolition began when Elle accused me of justifying slavery on the grounds of economic necessity:
I pointed out that I had made no moral judgements in my commentary:
That could have been a sufficient response, but I chose to add:
It was my intent to cite the abolition of slavery as an example to illustrate my understanding of how social structure arises and how social change occurs. Social change is evolutionary. It is fueled by environmental challenges and the introduction of innovations rather than through activism. Any activism that occurs is itself fueled by those same factors. The resulting social order does not represent the will or intentions of any individual or activist movements. My description of abolition was intended as a concrete example of that process.
I am using the term “slavery” to refer strictly to titled ownership of people that is legally recognized. While that form of slavery has been abolished in the United States, what has not been abolished is the incentives that inspire people to exploit others. I understand that you may wish to refer to all forms of exploitation as slavery, but I believe that it is useful to make a distinction between legally recognized titled ownership and other forms of exploitation. Elle Beau’s use of the term “functional slavery” allows for that distinction and I have adopted her terminology.
I made two main claims:
Machines replace slave labor.
Neither functional slave labor nor actual slave labor is used where there are powered machines to perform the work. The continued practice of slavery, functional or otherwise, does not refute that claim.
Moral indignation did not lead to the abolition of slavery.
Obviously, if slavery is still practiced in the United States then nothing, including moral indignation, can be credited with producing its abolition. I would also claim that moral indignation was not responsible for the abolition that did occur — the abolition of legally recognized ownership. The continued practice of slavery does not refute that claim.
Forms of slavery that are no longer practiced have been abolished because they are obsolete, not because of the moral indignation of activists. Forms of slavery that are currently being practiced are being practiced despite any moral indignation being expressed by anti-slavery activists.
The forms of slavery that have become obsolete have become so either because the labor is now performed by powered machines or because people have discovered that, in certain instances, under certain conditions, paid labor is more economical.
If you are interested (and if you are very patient) you can follow the trail of links below to follow the entire conversation between Elle Beau and I on the topic of slavery and abolition. Some of the linked comments discuss more than one topic, so you may have to hunt for the excerpt where slavery and abolition are discussed:
12/8/18
12/20/18
12/20/18
12/20/18
1/7/19
1/7/19
1/7/19
1/20/19
1/27/19
2/3/19
2/3/19
2/9/19
2/9/19
2/16/19
2/16/19
3/6/19
And this is where you entered the conversation.
